In the 2024 election, Democrats lost the presidency and control of the Senate. What now? Katie Glueck covers American politics with an emphasis on the Democratic Party for The New York Times. She joins guest host John McCaa to discuss why the Blue Wave never materialized, the current mood of a party marked by in-fighting, and strategies Democratic Party leadership might employ heading into the 2026 mid-terms.
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Transcript
John McCaa [00:00:00] And from KERA in Dallas, this is Think, I’m John McCaa, in for Krys Boyd. You know, there was a time when the Democratic Party was considered the party of the working class. Its advocacy of Social Security, voting rights, Medicare, and abortion rights provided some solid footing in campaigns against the more conservative, business-friendly Republican Party. Well, a lot of that has now changed. This past election, the Donald Trump-dominated GOP won the presidency. the Senate, and then kept control of the House, and many of the social policies long championed by Democrats have been either rolled back or eroded with much more promise to come. So how did it all happen? What’s next for Democrats? Katie Glueck has worked at Politico and McClatchy Media. She has covered both parties during her career as a journalist, and now she is a national political reporter with the New York Times, focusing on the Democrats. She joins us this hour. Katie, welcome to Think.
Katie Glueck [00:01:01] Thank you so much for having me.
John McCaa [00:01:03] No one disputes that the Democrats right now are in the midst of some pretty hard times, aren’t they?
Katie Glueck [00:01:11] Oh, absolutely. There was a recent poll that found that the favorability rating of the Democratic Party was at a generational low. Independence and Republicans certainly have a negative view of the party, you know, in many surveys. But, you also there are a lot of Democrats that are frustrated with their own party’s leadership.
John McCaa [00:01:36] There seems to be, right now, when you look at things, a fight going on about just how to respond to all of this among the Democrats. Should they oppose President Trump at every turn, or should they try to find some kind of common ground? You wrote about how Gavin Newsom, he seems to say, hey, let’s hear from some of these hardliners and some of the things that they have to say. And then he’s opposed by people like the governor, J.D. and I’m also thinking of Tim Waltz. who are saying, look, no, no we need to be unified Democrats and just fight Trump. That seems to be the battle that’s going on right now.
Katie Glueck [00:02:13] Absolutely. It’s interesting, and it really is a shift from the tensions and divisions that have characterized the Democratic Party in the past. Certainly thinking back to the lead up to the 2020 election, the Democratic primary that played out in 2019, early 2020, there were real ideological clashes, right? There was Senator Bernie Sanders, Senator Elizabeth Warren, others who were very much running to the left, betting that the country wanted to see really a bold liberal agenda that is talking about things like Medicare for all, really sweeping changes to other kinds of social policy on the social safety net. And then there were others, including Joe Biden, who, of course, ended up winning that primary in the presidency that year, who succeeded as they, I mean, he certainly succeeded curbing at a more moderate path. It’s a contrast to now, really, because the tensions we are seeing in the party are a little bit less about ideology, debates about a single payer, right, and how far or how moderate the party should be able to certainly those. Those tensions remain too, but you know, the kind of most intense clash we are seeing now is around how and where to draw the line with President Trump. And you know there are certainly Democrats who coming off of the November results where President Trump did win the popular vote as well as the Electoral College, you know you certainly see some leading Democrats. putting more emphasis on the idea that they need to find common ground with him, they want to take to heart, you know, how perhaps some of their states voted right, and kind of what their voters were demanding. You see others who are very much making the argument that what we’re seeing from the current administration is not what, you, know, American voters were promised I bet that this is not what… Americans want things are going too far. They need to fight the president his administration at a return and then you see others who are trying to navigate kind of a middle.
John McCaa [00:04:26] You know, one of the complaints that we hear a lot is that there was no focus really on the economy, jobs, inflation, the things that a lot of middle class and working class households were concerned about, and that those kinds of issues were ignored by the Democrats in the last presidential election.
Katie Glueck [00:04:52] There were many voters who felt that the Democratic ticket was not doing enough to combat the cost of living, the rise of cost of living, even though certainly there’s a lot of dynamics that go into that, which inflation was a global phenomenon, obviously, and prices have- In fact, more expensive, there’s some volatility there in recent months, during the Trump administration too. So, obviously, questions around cost of living, what actually drives that, those are complicated questions. But certainly, politically speaking, there was a lot of frustration with inflation, and with rising cost of living. that many Americans were experiencing during the previous administration. And not only was there that frustration in terms of the feeling that just day-to-day life was getting too expensive, but a lot of people felt that President Biden and then Vice President Harris, when she was the Democratic nominee, that they were not doing enough to be responsive to those concerns. And President Trump ran on many promises, including to lower the cost of living, right? and cost of living remains quite high now and so we’ll see how voters end up feeling about that in elections to come and then we’ll where that is. But certainly there was a perception that the Democratic Party was out of touch with kind of the day-to-day economic struggles of many Americans.
John McCaa [00:06:28] Elissa Slotkin is the new Democratic senator from Michigan. She has said that she was told when she was running that she needed to push some abstract, ideologically charged activism rather than the kinds of issues we’ve just been talking about. Is that something that you heard from candidates in the post-election?
Katie Glueck [00:06:50] No question that there is a tension, lots of tensions as we’ve been discussing within the Democratic Party, you know, one of the points of friction is the extent to which some of the policies and the policy priorities pushed by, you have more progressive activists, the extent which those are not in line with kind of where the general election population is. and so. you know, Democrats from really closely divided swing states like Senator Slotkin in Michigan ride or, you know folks coming from Wisconsin or Pennsylvania that have had to navigate and you know certainly like Vice President Harris, you know when she was the Democratic nominee have had to navigate this tricky divide between the the demands of more liberal activists who, of course, tend to be very, very engaged in the party, right? And certainly have quite a bit of influence there with how do you balance engaging those folks and keeping them very much in the fold and excited to go to bat for you with a general election population that might well be more moderate or even conservative.
John McCaa [00:08:04] Senator Slotkin won, but I’m thinking about some of these folks who had been attracting blue-collar Democrats before, Sherrod Brown in Ohio, for example, lost his race, and some other people. They lost their races in this past campaign. What you hear a lot, again, is that it was because the kinds of things that those blue- collar Democrats were interested in, working-class folks weren’t mentioned by the Democrats.
Katie Glueck [00:08:33] Well, and, you know, for people like Senator Brown, I think that there’s maybe some additional dynamics in play. I mean, he was trying to outrun a very, very challenging national head with the top of the ticket. Ohio has moved sharply to the right. And at a certain point, if the top where the ticket is losing by a significant margin, then it becomes even harder for folks down ballot to try and make that up, even when those those lawmakers like Senator Brown or Senator Bob Casey in Pennsylvania, even even when they do have their own distinct brands at a certain point, it becomes really hard to outrun the national, you know, the top of the ticket, if the top of the tickets and reflecting the national brand is really struggling in a place like Ohio or thing. Yeah. Senator Casey is another example. In Pennsylvania, there used to be a group of voters who were referred to as Casey Democrats. They tended to be much more socially conservative, sometimes Catholic, maybe more conservative on issues around guns and abortion rights, but tended to embrace them more. economic populist message and Senator Casey, a Democrat, I mean, literally embodied the idea of being a Casey Democrat in some ways, even though ultimately he ended up moderating some of his positions. But, you know, the fact that he lost or Congressman Cartwright, another Democrat from working class area in Pennsylvania. it really raises questions about, is this the end of the white working class voter? That’s a story that we did after the November elections. If even people with really strong brand, personal brands, people with with really strong personal ties to white working-class communities, if those Democrats can’t prevail, who can? And of course, it should be noted that it was not just white working class Democrats that. or white working-class voters that moved even further from the Democratic Party and that’s a trend that’s been going on for some time, but multiracial shift among working- class voters in particular and you know especially among men and so really many layers of problems for for the party here.
John McCaa [00:10:54] I’m old enough to remember when Richard Nixon in 1968 unveiled this southern strategy, which I think he got from Barry Goldwater, and from that point on, there had been an effort to try to get this white working class, particularly southern working class. Do you think that that has been something that they’ve been continuing to work on and was successful within this last election.
Katie Glueck [00:11:22] Well, you know, the shift of white working class voters, you know, some of whom, you know, were our sort of ancestral Democrats, right? But you know that that shift has been going on for some time. It is the shift of those voters toward the Republican Party and, you know, something that has accelerated for sure under Trump both in his first election and very much since then, including going into his second. So that has been a problem for the Democrats for some time, and it’s a problem that only seems to be getting worse for the Democrats. And then compounding that problem for them is the fact that working class. Black and Latino voters, in particular men, there are growing signs in recent years and especially in this past presidential election that these once fairly reliable, strongly reliable democratic constituencies, that there, in the case of Black voters, had been some softening for sure, especially among men and with Latino voters a real shift to the right. really striking numbers among Latino working-class voters. So, you know, we’ve seen shifts with Asian Americans as well. So, really, for Democrats, a challenge, as Republicans show, at least some ability to make some inroads into creating a multiracial working- class coalition. And, you, know, there’s all kinds of questions about the durability of that coalition, or can someone not name Donald Trump Reassemble that coalition. You know how much of this was driven by the extraordinary economic dynamics following the pandemic, you know all these are open questions, but but certainly the traditional coalition of Democrats have you know long relied on was shaken and weakened. Uh, absolutely.
John McCaa [00:13:30] Katie, I live along the border. I mean, just a few miles from the border There was some thought that there in Texas would be this blue wave and that the border would help with when you consider the policies that President Trump, then candidate Trump, now President Trump had been pushing. But that doesn’t seem to be the case. Latinos, along the border at least, seemed not to see immigration and illegal immigration has the issue that people thought it was.
Katie Glueck [00:14:07] Well, certainly, you know, there was a more broadly, you know, there were some Democrats who long embraced this idea that demographics is destiny, that as the, you know, the United States became increasingly, you know, even more diverse, including in places like Texas, that, you know, an electorate that increasingly included more uh, people of color, you know, including, uh, again, in places like Texas, you know more, more Latino voters that that was almost a guarantee of, of helping the democratic party that that was going to be what turned Texas blue. Right. Yeah. I mean, Democrats have been talking about that for a long time. Um, that is absolutely not what has happened and in fact, um, you know, in some ways, uh we’ve seen the opposite happen that is some communities that were Long supportive of Democrats have in fact increasingly moved rightward as we saw in the last presidential election now Again as we were talking about whether that shift amounting of voters and others is sustainable for the Republican Party as we see the Trump administration Taking really far-reaching actions on a whole host of issues. You know how those voters continue to feel about Trump, about the Republican Party, I think is very much an open question. But what we do know is that the bet on demographics as destiny was certainly way off for the Democrats.
John McCaa [00:15:43] Getting back a little bit to the fact that there were no among the Democrats, no debates. One of the benefits that you have of that usually is that it allows you to display your quote, quote, bench strength. It lets the national audience see some of the other voices in your party. And that did not happen. You think that was a problem?
Katie Glueck [00:16:06] There’s a couple of schools of thought among Democrats. I mean, some, and of course, hindsight is 2020, some argue that essentially in hindsight, a defeat was inevitable, there was too much frustration about the economy, about immigration, President Biden was. really unpopular for quite some time and so there’s this argument that no matter whom they might have nominated they were probably going to lose. There’s another school of thought that you know President Biden should not have run for re-election. The Democrats should have had a competitive primary and that you, know just about anyone not from the administration you know might have had like a much better chance against Donald Trump. You know there is indeed a deep patch of Democratic governors were very popular and competitive battleground states, prominent senators and others have certainly caught the attention of Democrats in that a robust primary would have injected a kind of a new measure of enthusiasm into a really kind of than certainly other schools of thought around the structural disadvantages, racism, misogyny that Kamala Harris faced when she became the nominee. But to your point, certainly many others who argue that had there been a competitive primary, even if she had emerged as the nominee, she would have been in a much stronger position. So. You know, I think Democrats have a lot of regrets about the way that the 2024 presidential election unfolded.
John McCaa [00:17:56] How about media strategy this time around? It seemed the Republicans were, they’re the ones who defined the Democrats using media, legacy media, new media, that sort of thing, this past election, and the Democrats.
Katie Glueck [00:18:19] Where Republicans seemed to have an advantage that Democrats struggle to match was, you know, less in terms of, you know, traditional advertising on television, right? And it was more about, you know, their ability to connect with, you know, Americans who are maybe not following. every single news development on CNN, but you tend to get more of their information, especially young men, from podcasts, right, from Joe Rogan, from Theo Vaughn, from others in the podcast world, especially the sort of right-leaning podcast world. You know, Trump and other Republicans were able to really break through there. And what you see from a lot of Democrats now is a real kind of reassessment of should they be going on all of those podcasts? And, you know, are there other mediums where they can maybe build an advantage? Are there other ways to reach Americans, especially younger men who are perhaps lower information voters? And those are the voters, some of the voters with whom Democrats ended up struggling the most. And actually a colleague of mine, a few colleagues of mine and I actually did a story recently about the degree to which, um, ambitious Democrats are really trying to get out there on sports podcasts. Um, and, um which of course is, a medium that attracts a demographic that includes, you know, men, right? Who, um and Democrats, no question, have had an electoral problem with men. Um you know especially in the last election and so, um, you do see, and it’s quite striking, you, know, a number of, of Democrats who are you seeking to build relationships with. sports audiences as one way to make inroads in a way that’s not so overtly political.
John McCaa [00:20:19] Progressives, they’ve been arguing that transgender issues, immigration, some things that people have said had little to do with Harris’ loss, but centrist groups, there’s a group called Third Way, they say, well, that’s not true, that those kinds of issues were things that drove people to the polls for the Republicans.
Katie Glueck [00:20:47] So, certainly, there has been a lot of debate about the role that, you know, and I think those are different issues, certainly. But there are a number of your really hot-button social issues that, especially around transgender rights, that Republicans talked a lot about in the election. And you’re certainly right that there’s a lot of debate over how much that did or did not move people. The thing I have heard from a lot of Democrats is that there’s this ad that you use some positions Harris had taken around transgender rights in the 2020 presidential primary to sort of cast her as someone who was focused on the rights of transgender individuals or to the exclusion of everybody else. That was this this ad that Republicans sort of blanket of the airwaves with. And, you know, there are some Democrats who will tell you that was that ended up being a powerful ad and it was something that the Democrats should have responded to in a more head on way than than they did. But, you, know, certainly that issue is one that you see a lot of internal Democratic divisions over is that, you both sort of where they should end up on policy around transgender rights on things like. sports participation, but also more broadly, how to talk about it, and that is one place where we’ve seen a lot of friction within the party post-election.
John McCaa [00:22:22] As we look back at the election, do you think that Democrats gave voters enough clear policy alternatives of things that they wanted to support, the Green New Deal, for example? Do you think there were ideas like that that they put forward, or that the general public just didn’t see what the platform or the issues were from their respect.
Katie Glueck [00:22:48] Certainly, Vice President Harris and President Biden before her did have, you know, all kinds of policy proposals, right, and, you now, kinds of agendas for various voter groups and, certainly, Vice-President Harris, who was ultimately the Democratic nominee, really emphasized. You know, various proposals aimed at, you know, helping people who are struggling economically, right? She absolutely had those proposals and laid them out and tried to talk about them. But, you, know, one thing that the Democrats have really been wrestling with really since Trump came onto the scene is what is the balance between a message that lays out what they see as the threat that they argue that Trump poses to American democracy towards American stability and its role in the world. How do you balance that kind of message, which is something a lot of Democrats and certainly some independents embrace and feel very strongly about, with some sort of forward-looking affirmative message. You know, kind of the tension between some argue around the idea that it’s not enough to be against Trump, what do we stand for? What’s the reason to affirmatively vote for the Democrat party? And that’s a messaging tension and it’s a policy tension. And it’s something that a lot of Democrats are continuing to wrestle with.
John McCaa [00:24:27] So there’s a lot of suggestions that have come out about what to do next. The political strategist James Carville has essentially said that Democrats should, his words, roll over and play dead and just let Republican promises. Some people listening to that?
Katie Glueck [00:24:49] Well, that, I think, goes back to what you and I were talking about at the very beginning of the show about the real debate in the Democratic Party over how to respond to Trump and the Republican Congress. Do you fight them at every turn? Do you pick your spots? If so, what are those spots? How do you fight? What do you say? What is the most effective way to go about this? and there’s real divides in the party, again, over. uh, exactly how to do this. And, and in fact, it is, um, I think it’s as we were discussing earlier, you know, perhaps the most urgent, um and, and fraught debate in, in the party of how to navigate that dynamic.
John McCaa [00:25:32] You know, there’s a representative from Texas, Greg Casar, a Democrat from Texas who I think leads the Congressional Progressive Caucus. He says that perhaps we should push on the fact that voters may be uneasy with giving more power to folks who are ultra wealthy to emphasize that kind of issue.
Katie Glueck [00:25:52] Yes, that is certainly something that a lot of Democrats are talking about. I mean, Elon Musk, you know, was not on the ballot. He has enormous power in the Trump administration. And a lot of Democrats are making the argument that this is an administration that is looking out for unelected billionaires and not for working people. And that is a message they’re really, you at least some of them are very focused on and they see that as a compelling message. And so, you know, whether it is an open question and I think we’ll start to get some evidence one way or the other in some special elections and other contests that are coming down the pipeline in coming weeks. But certainly there are a lot of Democrats who are making the case that… if the party really wants to go back to its roots as being the party of the working class, it needs to embrace a far more populist economic message.
John McCaa [00:26:56] Yeah, there is a here in Texas, we used to have a an agriculture commissioners name is Jim Hightower. He wrote an article for the Nation magazine. This is someone who has always been speaking from a progressive perspective. And he said, and I’m going to quote some of this, he says that Democrats need to take on the six B’s bosses, bankers, billionaires, Big shots, bastards and well let’s just say he says that they should engage in and fight those who are spreading bovine scatology that’s that’s where we can put it here on this but that’s the kind idea we’re talking about.
Katie Glueck [00:27:42] Certainly in part, that’s quite a colorful way to do it, but memorable for sure. But certainly there is a segment of the democratic party that is arguing vigorously that, yes, this needs to be a party that positions itself as the party of the working class that’s fighting for the little guy against the big corporations and against the billionaires, right? And there are others in the party who do not. that view. And the I know we’ve talked a lot about tensions in this conversation, but there’s there’s some money in them for for the party. I mean, if you if you think about what, you know, the base of the Democratic Party looks like now, certainly, you know, Black women are very important part of part of the base. Certainly, you don’t the Democrats continue to have a stronghold in cities, although they’re standing has has eroded certainly in a lot of major cities at least in the last election but you know it’s you also see increasing involvement from diverse suburbs and where people kind of from across you know diverse array of backgrounds with high a higher you know educational attainment in some of these suburbs, again, people from a variety of backgrounds playing an increasing role in the democratic party. And within that demographic, you know, there are perhaps some, again from a variety of background, who may be less interested in the kind of robust economic populism and have gravitated more toward the party. because of their concerns about Trump and what they see as the threat his administration is to democracy. And so how do you balance kind of all of those folks from all of those backgrounds and kind of get everyone on the same message is a challenge.
John McCaa [00:29:51] You know, Republicans under Donald Trump, they’re already talking about building their future. I even, from time to time, hear some discussion of trying to change the Constitution so that Donald Trump could have a third term.
Katie Glueck [00:30:07] Certainly, a lot of discussion already about the next presidential election, and if what you just outlined does not happen, there’s certainly the expectation that there would be an open primary by the Republican and Democratic sides, and certainly on the Democratic Especially, you can expect just a huge, huge… field where all the differences of opinion within the party that we’ve been discussing on this show are aired out and you see kind of all those clashes playing out in real time.
John McCaa [00:30:47] You know, what’s going on as we talk this time, of course, there’s all the discussion about this signal leak regard to information that got into the Atlantic magazine. And we do see what seems to be some unity, some unifying among the Democrats with regard to responding to that issue and how the Republicans have been handling.
Katie Glueck [00:31:09] Certainly. I mean, you see across the party, at least among elected officials in Washington, among Democrats, outrage and genuine concern about whether, you know, this was a risk to national security. You know, whether voters, whether, this is the top concern for voters in next year’s midterms or in the coming presidential election, three years from now, I think is three and a half years from now is a very different question, but certainly on this kind of issue, at least among Democrats in Washington, you absolutely see widespread agreement.
John McCaa [00:31:48] I wanted, if we could, to get into a little bit who the future voices of the party may be, who’s out there that’s already taking a look at this. Is it possible that we will see former Vice President Kamala Harris again?
Katie Glueck [00:32:04] Certainly it’s possible. She is also thought to be looking at a run for governor of California, which wouldn’t automatically preclude her from also seeking the presidency, although that would make it more difficult if she tried to do both. But no question, she is not disappearing from the national stage, you know, whether or not she runs for. President in 2028, I think it is clear that there is going to be, as I mentioned earlier, a very large field.
John McCaa [00:32:35] So, how about the last two vice presidential candidates? I’m talking Tim Kaine of Virginia, Tim Walz of Minnesota. Certainly, Walz has really not stayed quiet since the election has ended. We hear a lot about it.
Katie Glueck [00:32:53] We do. We do he’s he is out visiting, you know, in particular, more conservative areas, you know, trying to send a message that, you Know, Democrats are taking seriously what’s happening in Washington. And he just just during the campaign when when he was Vice President Harris is running mate, you and he was deployed to a lot of more conservative areas, you know, he’s been focusing on getting out to some of those places again now. You know, if he decides to run for re-election as governor, we’ll have a race before him in Minnesota first next year, but he’s also said he’s not ruling out a look at or is indicated that he’s now ruling out another run for higher office himself. So he’s certainly someone to keep an eye on.
John McCaa [00:33:45] You touched on this, he was this past election, the guy who it seemed the Democrats wanted to get out there and try to find these blue collar moderate Democrats.
Katie Glueck [00:33:56] Well certainly, you know, uh, I the campaign had hoped that not only would he engage Some of those voters but but that he might help with you know With some crossover appeal to moderate republicans and independents and others who made all kinds of explicit appeals with these voters, you Know to who did not think of themselves as as liberal by any means but felt that the republican party Mitt Romney and they’re corrupt as the Republican Party of Mitt Romany and John McCain just really does not exist anymore. And for some of those voters, you know, there was real discomfort with the direction that President Trump has taken the party. And so there’s a real effort from the Harris campaign using people like Tim Walz and Liz Cheney and others to try and reach out and engage some of these voters. Obviously, it was not enough. But yes, that’s certainly an where he focused, he also tried. More broadly to engage rural voters to engage working-class voter voters others who Maybe don’t love the party brand as much of he leaned into his background as you know for my high school football coach And as someone who grew up in rural America himself.
John McCaa [00:35:10] Gavin Newsom certainly seems to be a name we hear a lot about. He has this new podcast in which we talked about this earlier. He seems to interested in expanding the Democratic tent by listening at least to people. I think he’s had on Charlie Kirk, who certainly is not normally someone you’d hear talking with the Democrats. That’s also Steve Bannon.
Katie Glueck [00:35:35] Yeah. And it’s an approach that has been certainly somewhat controversial within Governor Newsom’s own party. But yes, Governor Newsome, Democrat of California, long been thought to be potentially interested in higher office. He has made a lot of headlines recently for this podcast that he launched where, in addition to having on those right-wing figures that you mentioned, he also recently had on Tim Walls, actually. But, you know, he has tried to use this podcast as a place for some dialog, but, you know, kind of where that goes, I think is an open question.
John McCaa [00:36:17] A lot of folks, when Kamala Harris was looking for a running mate, were really pushing for Josh Shapiro. And he still, at this point, seems to be a pretty strong position right now. And he’s from a state, Pennsylvania, that, of course, the Democrats would have left secure.
Katie Glueck [00:36:35] Absolutely. And of course, he’s another person who will need to get through a re-election before 2028. He’s up next year for a second term. But yeah, Governor Shapiro, he was, along with Governor Wallace and others, in the mix for Harris’ running mate. He did not get that, but certainly it caught a lot of national attention. in the process. And he is, yeah, he’s very popular in a critical battleground state. Of course, you know, there, there’s a long history of popular governors from big states who, you know in the presidential light, it ends up being more challenging and things about people like Jeb Bush or even Ron DeSantis. or Scott Walker certainly, people who were really seen as big stars in their states as governor and then the national spotlight ends up being a bit of a different story. But there’s a lot of people definitely in the party who are interested in Shapiro right now and see him as someone else who would be in the mix for higher office.
John McCaa [00:37:46] You know, a lot of times when people are going to run, what we see is all of a sudden, they’ve written a book and that book is published and even though they may say they’re still thinking about whether or not they wanna run. A book comes out, all of the sudden, they’re visiting many different states around the country that are nowhere close to the state in which they live. Are we starting to see that?
Katie Glueck [00:38:10] Uh, yeah, certainly a book tour is, is yes, a thing to keep an eye on. Uh, you know, we’re, um, I think for seeing that with, uh, some potential Senate candidates and candidates for governor, I mean, just thinking about Michigan alone, you now, I know the candidate for, for governor and other potential candidate for Senate, who, you know, who were both, you’re out with, or will soon be out with books and, you, know, governor Whitmer. Michigan who could also run in 28. You know, she has had a book out For some time now as well, but you know, so I think most immediately we are seeing it from from people who You know are looking at Seats in for 26, but your you’re right. That’s absolutely the you know thing to keep an eye on for People who are considering higher office that going into 28 as well
John McCaa [00:39:01] Amy Klobuchar, the senator for a while at least, she was always talking about eggs, the price of eggs and that sort of thing. She’s something we should take a look at too.
Katie Glueck [00:39:11] Yes, Senator Klobuchar from Minnesota, of course, ran in 2020 as well, but yes, she’s someone else who is, you know, known to, she is a more moderate politician, she has very much been out there on the egg-related messaging and making the argument that President Trump talked a lot about lowering prices, but in fact, eggs have gotten, certainly early in his administration, you know. very expensive, even more expensive for a number of reasons, tend to bird food and other things. But she’s definitely someone who has a present, who has reputation and relationships in some of the early state or early traditional, early voting states from her last presidential run. So certainly something to keep an eye on as well.
John McCaa [00:40:01] What about Pete Buttigieg?
Katie Glueck [00:40:03] Mm hmm. He is someone who just took himself out of contention for running statewide in Michigan, despite some open seats there, and we have reported that people around him really want to help keep his options open for
John McCaa [00:40:22] Some other names that come to mind. There’s the governor of Kentucky, who we don’t hear as much about him daily, but, Andy, for sure, you hear about him from time to time. And when you do hear about him, we’re talking about a state that the Democrats have and would love to keep. And that’s a kind of expansion of the party that some folks talking about.
Katie Glueck [00:40:46] Yes, certainly Governor Beshear. There’s a lot of governors who I think are probably likely to look at a presidential bid in 28. Yes, he is the democratic governor of a deeply conservative state. Kentucky is not the only place where kind of the national inclinations of the state are, you know, don’t necessarily reflect his governor and Kansas is a very republican state. At the presidential level, it has a Democratic governor, Massachusetts, very liberal. state and has had in the past a number of very popular Republican governors. So you do see that sometimes, but certainly this year is someone who was also mentioned as a potential running mate for Kamala Harris, didn’t end up getting the nod, but is someone who certainly has caught some national attention for being a Democrat who does not shy away from his more liberal positions on things like abortion rights and was still able to win in a very conservative state. And as I mentioned for all of these governors, and it is in particular governors who are thought to be interested in looking at the next presidential race, although there will be plenty of senators and perhaps House members and others who may want to jump in too, you know, the challenge for any governor is again, as we were talking about, Can you, you know, can you translate? success and popularity, you know, at the state level, the international appeal, and you know it’s an open question for anybody. But yes, he and Governor Pritzker and Governor Newsom and Walls and Governor Shapiro and perhaps Governor Westmore of Maryland, I’m sure I’m forgetting many others, but you know there’s a lot of popular governors who, you know are all kind of part of the conversation.
John McCaa [00:42:38] So what changes do you foresee that they’re already trying to make in terms of the Democrats for 2028? Will there be this move more to look for moderate voters or look for the centrist voter?
Katie Glueck [00:42:56] You know, I think it’s really, really hard to predict this far out. We don’t really know what kind of the democratic opposition to Trump looks like yet, I mean, for the next month, for, you know, much less the next two, three years. So, you now, it’s hard to know whether the tension is forcing right now around how to respond to him. you know, does that give way to more ideological clashes? Again, it’s just we are in such extraordinary, while this is an overused word, you know maybe unprecedented times in some ways in Washington that it’s very hard to predict kind of what the contours of the next Democratic presidential primary will be, except that, you there’s likely to be a lot of interest in someone who can. clearly make the case for what their path to victory looks like in a general election. I mean, Democrats, you know, are probably going to continue to be feeling bruised about their 24 loss and really be thinking about what does it take to win in 28. As they did in 2020, people are going to have different theories about what kind of coalition you need to build to win nationally, but I think we will certainly see debates around that.
John McCaa [00:44:18] Katie Glueck is a national political correspondent with the New York Times, with an emphasis on the Democrats. Thanks for being with us today.
Katie Glueck [00:44:26] Thank you so much for having me. It was great to talk to you.
John McCaa [00:44:29] Think is distributed by PRX, the Public Radio Exchange. You can find us on Facebook and Instagram and listen to our podcast for free, wherever you get your podcast. Just search for KERA Think. Our website is think.kera.org. That’s where you can find out about upcoming shows and sign up for our free weekly newsletter. Once again, I’m John MCcaa, filling in today for Krys Boyd. Thanks for listening and have a great day.
